Gizane Campos 0:00

Welcome to Be Global, the podcast that delves into the experiences, challenges, and migration trends for global citizens. I'm your host, Shisanne Campos, and today we're exploring the intersection of mental health and expert life, how to prepare for a move, overcome challenges, and embrace the opportunities of a new chapter abroad. Joining us today are three incredible guests, Dr. Laura Madrid Satureto, research lead at Global Citizen Solutions, who will share some insights from the newly released 2025 Quality of Life Rankings. Gal and Mayen, co-founders of the Musative app, a platform designed to simplify the expat journey, and Bianca Tate, an expat coach, helping individuals navigate major life decisions. So it is January, it's dark and gloomy in the North Hemisphere, and I think we are all savouring an emotional hangover after a few weeks of um, you know, uh maybe going too hard in the festive season. 2025 starts with those projects that we all want to make it come true, but the main job is not to give up before fab. So, no, trust me, we are not going to delve into your fitness routine or how much broccoli you commit yourself to eat this month. Let's dive in and help you out with that goal of relocating or simply experiencing life abroad for um for good, moving completely, or uh living for a period of your time in a different country. So before we start, I'm going to ask each of you to introduce yourself, our guests. And um I'd like you to say your name, where you are calling from, and what was your I won't say, um I wouldn't want you to tell me uh your new year's resolution, but what you thought you could make different in 2025. So I'll start first, okay? My name is Gizzani. Um, I'm calling from Lisbon and I've lived in three different countries. And this year, what I want to do differently is to tackle admin as a grown-up. Because one thing that expats we don't talk about when you become a citizen of different countries, of different nationalities, is the amount of work of admin that comes with it. And when you have an offspring, which is my case, I have to deal with documents from five um different countries. So I will tackle it one document at a time, one paper at a time. So that's what I'm gonna do this year. So, how about you, Laura?

SPEAKER_04 3:05

Hello, this is a very good question, and uh, I think your resolution is quite uh relevant, and I should also um uh use this uh for me as well, because I'm also living in a country that is not my country of nationality, and I do have to deal with uh you know different consulates and and and um legal different legal systems. Uh so my name is Laura Madrid. I'm calling from Sunny Blue Skies Madrid. And um my resolution this year is to try reading more fiction books, not only you know, um um literature that I use for for the reports and for work, but I would like to have the time to read more fictional books this year.

Gizane Campos 3:59

Great, thank you. Um, yes, I also want to read more fictional books. Um Mayan and Gal, can you tell me where you're calling from and um what do you have? What how many countries you lived, and uh what do you plan to do differently in 2025?

SPEAKER_02 4:16

Um so I'm Gal. Uh I'm calling from Paris. And for 2025, I want to say that I heard this amazing uh podcast a couple weeks ago, and she was talking about doing less. Uh, so I think that's my biggest resolution. I cannot say that I'm doing well so far, but that's that's the objective to do less. We tend to overdo, overthink, uh want to condense everything. So I'm gonna try and do less this year. I love it.

SPEAKER_03 4:52

Uh I'm I'm calling from Paris as well, from the same room actually. Um, and my resolution for 2025 is to prioritize myself more, what's important for me and what matters to me, and not only think about others. Um, so yeah, love your resolutions as well.

Gizane Campos 5:13

Yes, so good. Thank you. Yes, I'm lovely uh hearing all the resolutions here um because they're all very relevant. Um, Bianca. Hi, welcome. I want to hear a bit about you.

SPEAKER_00 5:27

Hi, thank you. Um, so I'm Bianca. I'm calling from Lisbon, Portugal, which is now my fourth country that I'm living in. And for 2025, I really want to embrace the ups and downs of entrepreneurship. So, really take my own medicine, take my own advice, and when um you inevitably hit some of those downs, remind myself really why I'm doing it, coming back to my values and trying to embrace the ups as well as the downs.

Gizane Campos 5:59

I think I'll take a little bit of uh all your resolutions here and add it to mine. Um and uh just make it, you know, kind of a baby steps and ensure I do a little bit every day, or not even every day, just once a week, and I think we'll all be fine. But anyway, I'll leave the well-being and um mindset for the specialists. Right now, I'm gonna dive into the quality of life rankings. So, for those of you that are hearing about it for the first time, Global Citizen Solutions has a passport index called the Global Passport Index. Um, the index has three different um indexes that forms the final number, uh, the final ranking. And uh one of those indexes is the quality of life one. And I'm gonna ask Laura, because she's the research lead behind the um you know, crunching the numbers to get us with the final results. So I want to ask her with the key findings from the 2025, could you share what stood out to you the most?

SPEAKER_04 7:11

Yes, sure. Uh so we are going to talk a little bit about the quality of life dimension of the Global Passport Index, uh, 2025 Global Passport Index. And for start with, I'm going to give you some highlights and key takeaways of the report and the index, and then we can discuss further specific uh contexts. First of all, again, Nordic countries maintain top positions uh with Sweden, Finland, and Denmark as uh the top five um countries. Switzerland, although the country scores really high in the global passport index overall, because uh it scores really high investment dimension and the mobility dimension of the global passport index, it did fall a lot, uh fell a lot uh in the quality of life dimension. It is ranked 46th, and it's mainly because of high living costs and lack of uh affordable housing in the country. The US and Canada have also uh uh dropped, and we are going to discuss the US context further. Portugal has emerged as a relevant destination for people that look for pleasant weather, you know, sunlight, safety, social connections, and good work-life balance. And still in Europe, it is a more affordable option for people that want to relocate in that country. Japan has also climbed some positions because the country has implemented some laws that limited working hours, and then it prompted a more balanced relation between life and work. So these are the highlights, and we can then discuss further, you know, specific contexts.

Gizane Campos 9:10

There are some very interesting points there. Um I'd like to delve a bit more into Scandinavia. So they seem to be dominating the rankings, and Sweden is again at the top uh for the third year. So, what are the takeaways from their approach to well-being and how other countries can learn from them?

SPEAKER_04 9:36

Yes. Uh we identify in not only in Scandinavia, but also in Nordic countries, because we include Finland and uh Iceland as well, in uh in countries that score a really high in quality of life dimension. And um uh scholars call it the Nordic exceptionalism. Because the countries they they maintain a high uh ranking when it comes to quality of life, and it's not different in the global passport index and in the quality of life dimension of the global passport index. Uh, and we have identified some elements that are common to those countries and that make uh the country's score so high in the quality of life dimension. First of all, they have a reliable uh welfare state. So you have universal healthcare and education that are free for all and high quality as well. Additionally, when you talk about healthcare, in some specific Nordic countries, mental health is treated with uh with the same importance as physical health. In Finland, you're gonna have uh mental health integrated to primary services, and in Denmark, they emphasize early intervention and community-based support for people in need of uh mental health uh support. The second element is uh work-life balance. Um all the countries they have generous parental leave and flexible work arrangements. In Sweden, for instance, both parents have 480 paydays of parental leave, and it's well above the EU average, that is uh 210 days. And all Nordic countries they have um uh above uh EU average uh parental leave, and it helps families to conciliate and and uh have a good balance, work-life balance. Um it is a bit contra-intuitive, but it doesn't affect productivity of uh Nordic um workers. Those countries again are among the most productive when you think about um uh per hour productivity of uh workers, and um this um balance between work and life does not affect uh productivity in in those countries. A third element that we identified is that uh Nordic societies societies they benefit from from a profound connection to nature. They have abundant green spaces, uh they usually introduce and include in their weekly life uh outdoor exercising, and it's also very important when it comes to mental health and health in general. Uh the Stockholm, Copenhagen, and Helsinki and Oslo are again in the top positions uh in the Green City Index. And this index it evaluates uh you know if the cities have green spaces, the quality of the air, and environmental policies uh that are implemented in the urban areas. Equality is also important when you talk about uh Nordic um uh countries, and then you have this uh sense of equality between men and women, and of course, a generous parental leave allows women to get access to labor markets and to not be discriminated against in the labor labor market, and they also have this very strong um social fabric. Those countries are again amongst the the highest uh in the rankings when you talk about interpersonal relationship and trust and institutional trust, and uh they are above average, um, especially when you talk about EU average, uh uh regarding police trust, politicians' trust, and institutional trust in general. So you get a strong social fabric in in those countries, and it also helps people to have this safety net that they need when you talk about uh mental health and quality of life in general. So, together those five uh elements or those five factors uh always um put Nordic countries in the top positions when uh we talk about quality of life indexes and rankings in general.

Gizane Campos 14:28

Laura, those those numbers are remarkable. And um we kind I think we all know without uh even looking into data that there is certainly quality of life in Scandinavian countries, and we know uh how strong their social fabric is, and um you know the respect for institutions and so on. And I do uh work-life balance, uh parental leave, uh, but when you see all those um you know information in in data, in numbers, it really supports what we should be doing now um in the in the private our private lives as well as our um at a governmental and um societal level. So I'd like to go a little bit further and ask you um how do you think these factors actually sorry, you mentioned somewhere the role of uh foreign uh direct investment and uh welcoming stance towards migrants. So how do you think these factors impact mental health for expats moving to such countries?

SPEAKER_04 15:48

Uh I don't know if I got the the question right, but you're talking about how foreign direct investment uh uh contributes to the And the welcoming uh position, welcoming stance towards migrants. Usually what happens, especially lately, is uh that there is a narrative that can that immigrants or migrants will um be a burden for the whole societies and that uh they will take advantage of public services. But what I have uh to to show in data in this in this in this opportunity in this podcast is the um the example, the case of Portugal, for instance. Uh Portugal uh in 2008 was was uh recovering, was um actually in a huge financial crisis, and in the the last years it has recovered a lot, and it's largely driven by immigration and foreign direct investment. Um foreign direct investment in a country has revitalized sectors like of the economy like uh construction, tourism, and uh technology. And immigration has helped the country to deal with labor shortages. So, of course, the influx of international talent and investment from abroad has helped the country to tackle the uh the consequences of the uh 2008 uh financial crisis. Um it it uh contradicts what people or what some some media uh media outlets say about immigration. Not only from the economic side, and then we talk about foreign direct investment, but also from the uh from the personal and talent side, because you're gonna have this uh influx of international talent. When you when we can demonstrate this information with data, uh we can show to the whole society that actually they are benefiting from immigration and for from migrants, and you're gonna have a smoother in uh smoother integration process because uh immigration is portrayed in a more positive uh light as we it should be portrayed. Um I think this is one uh way uh when we can uh demonstrate that immigration and fore direct investment are important elements for the whole societies and Portugal and actually Spain as well demonstrate this uh this context.

Gizane Campos 18:38

That's great. That's great, Laura. That's those are really good insights. Um I do well since we're talking about migration now, I still have some questions for you about the poor performance of uh the US and the poorer performance of Switzerland in comparison with the um Scandinavian countries, the Nordic countries. But we're talking about migration now, and I think it would be a really good moment to bring in um smoothative and speak to Gal Mayen. Um so Gal Mayen, thank you for joining us. Um so smoothative helps expats navigate their move abroad. Can you share how a mental preparation plays a role in making this transition smoother?

SPEAKER_03 19:37

Uh do you want to go? Okay. So thank you for having us. And uh first of all, this is really interesting, all the insights and all this uh information that you just mentioned. Um maybe we'll try to connect those two because you talked a lot about those um Scandinavian countries, but from what we know, those are countries where a lot of expats are having a hard time integrating and living in those amazing countries, right? They have like the best maternity leaves and they have like they give mental health treatments and um a lot of things to their uh citizens, but a lot of expats having a really hard time to integrate, and I feel that one of the biggest uh things that is blocking them is this preparation, uh, this mental preparation because a lot of people are arriving to a new country, for example, in Sweden or Denmark, and the culture shock is so big that they don't understand how to navigate the local system, how to approach people, how to ask for help. They don't read correctly the reaction of people, uh, of the local people, and they are miserable. We have a lot of clients in those countries who are miserable, and that's actually one of the reasons we created Smoothie because we see so many people living in those amazing countries uh and they're not enjoying their lives, they're uh spending their time struggling and surviving when they would just have to just you know take what they are given and enjoy this life. And this is where the preparation is crucial, and a lot of people are you know preparing their move abroad by um taking care of their visa, finding a job, um, looking for you know tax uh regulations that they need to know, looking for all the logistics, which is really, really important, and without that you can't move, but they really neglect the emotional and mental aspect of. A move abroad. And we feel this makes the difference between having you know a relocation and staying there and struggling and waiting for the time to pass and having a life abroad where you can actually enjoy it and enjoy the benefits of those amazing countries.

Gizane Campos 22:22

Thanks for bringing this different perspective. It's actually very important. Moving to the Nordic countries is not for the faint hearted. The winter is really harsh. And yeah, there are some cultural differences, the so-called uh coldness of the north, which is with ingrained in in uh culturally as well, um, which might not mean that they're not warm people inside, but uh they don't express in the same way as um other parts of the world.

SPEAKER_04 22:55

So just add uh uh a contribution. Um it's very important to mention what uh what Maya said because usually when you talk about indicators, the quality of life indicators, those quality of life indicators are developed for for people that are nationals or long residents. So that's why it's it's difficult that they will identify the struggles that expat face when they they go to a country. And I understand that uh especially when you talk about Nordic countries, the language and the the bureaucracy in the um in the systems, like the healthcare, for instance, education systems. They are I think very very strong challenge for people that are expats in those countries. That's why uh I agree that preparation and integration programs in those countries are very important to the success of the relocation process.

Gizane Campos 23:54

Sure. Bianca, do you have something to add here?

SPEAKER_00 23:56

Yes, I mean, um I have to agree a little bit with everybody, right? Long-term is very different than just arriving. And even myself with some German roots, going to the Netherlands for the first time, um, I was quite shocked uh by uh the culture and even joining the workforce there and really integrating. So I think it's always great, right, to be prepared uh for um what you're walking into. So doing the research on the culture, uh reaching out to people that have already lived there, that have moved there, that may be from a similar background from you, and really just mentally preparing uh for what you're walking into, I think is really important. But yes, depending on where you go and also what your own background is, it can be difficult to integrate and adapt, uh, which is why I mean, when I work with my clients, we kind of plan ahead for these things. We already look ahead for these are common pitfalls uh that you might fall into. Even I myself, in my own journey, have struggled with times of isolation and trying to figure out how do I make friends here, because I didn't proactively plan around these things uh before my move. And then next thing I know, once the focus, um as Mayan said, once the focus of logistics dies down, you have your housing sorted, you're in your routine with work, that's when the reality typically hits. It's not for the first few weeks, right? You have that honeymoon period, and once that wears off, you realize, okay, wow, I am in a different environment. This is difficult to navigate, which is why getting prepared for these things and having some plans in place, doing research beforehand is so critical for a smoothest possible transition. But there's definitely always going to be some ups and downs when uh you're moving abroad.

Gizane Campos 25:52

Absolutely. I always my tip, my personal tip, it might not work because I'm not a specialist, but it works for me. I always make friends before I move to the country. Um, in the past, when Facebook was big, I used to go into Facebook groups and uh, you know, try to find the groups there, groups of moms and so on. And then, and then yeah, that was even before I was thinking of moving. It was just like, I think this country is interesting. Let me look into you know like the community and see how I can integrate. But anyway, let's talk to the specialists now. I want to go back to um Mayan and Gal. So, and and the app, smoothity. So the app focused on combining expert knowledge and mindset work, right? What are the biggest mindset shifts people need to make when planning to move abroad?

SPEAKER_02 26:48

I'll I'll start by saying that I guess the biggest mindset shift that people need to work is understand that you need to work on your mindset. And a lot of people are, as we said earlier, are overlooking this thing. They focus all their energy into researching things or figure looking externally instead of looking internally. How am I feeling about this move abroad? What do I want from it? Why do I even move abroad? Um, one of the biggest um programs that we have on our app is to figure out the real reason for a relocation. And a lot of people will say to you, but I know why I'm moving, I'm moving for a great job opportunity, or I'm moving for uh an adventure, or but it's not necessarily the real reason, and then it causes struggles later on. So the reason why we created this app the this way is that we understand that there is a balance between the fact that we're human beings and we need to know things, uh, because without this knowledge, we are facing a lot of uncertainty, and uncertainty causes us stress and sleepless nights and uh exhaustion and other other stuff. So we need the knowledge on one hand, but the mindset work is a lot about how do we approach things because one of the things that uh a lot of experts will deal with is the fact that things are different. It's not better, it's not worse, it's just different than what they're used to be uh and used to do. And the way you approach situations will impact greatly how you will experience the different situations. Um, so those kind of things, this is what we focus on inside of our app and the work with that we do with our clients is how do you approach certain situations, who you are when you approach those situations, how do you make sure that you as a person is taken care of amidst all the other stuff that you have to take care of uh when you move abroad?

Gizane Campos 28:57

Very good points there. And um, I'd like to say a lot of people that never moved abroad or never thought of or had a group of friends that moved abroad before or never had to migrate, um, are now looking into migration. So they are very they're freshers. And um for instance we have Global Citizen Solutions, um a great majority, a good number, not majority, but a good number of our clients come from the US. And um and the uh so migrating to a new country is is something new. So let's uh pretend I've downloaded the app here as Musitative. How can it help me with the daunting task of logistics? Visa application, if I'm able to work in a country or not. How does it how does it um how can you give me intangible uh information? How the app helps people through this process?

SPEAKER_03 30:06

So, what the app does is give you exactly the knowledge that you need. It's not uh done-for-year services, uh, but it's giving you the knowledge. And knowledge is not only power, but it's also security. When you know something and you know, for example, if you're moving to Portugal uh and you need, you know, to know what the immigration process is, you need to understand the terms, the words that people are using when somebody will take care of your visa. So the app gives you knowledge, it's all video content uh created by experts um from all over the world. Um so you have the knowledge, but that's not enough because you can Google, you know, and look online for information that is might be true or not, relevant to you or not, but you can find the information. So here we give you knowledge from experts that are, from what we know, uh trustworthy, and we ask them to give the information the information in a simple way. So don't give me the statistics and the big words, just talk to me like I was a friend of yours. So it's very important for us. So once you have the information, that's one thing, but on the other hand, and we talked about it before, you need the mindset to actually go and do something with this information that you have, with this knowledge that you have. Because if you have the information and you know you're a newbie in this uh world and you're coming from the US to Portugal, for example, and now you know what you need to do uh in order to get your visa, for example, but you're too scared to do it, and you're never gonna do it, and you are going to stay in the US, and that's perfectly fine. But if it's not what you want to do, you need to have the courage to actually act on your desires and to use this knowledge that you have to actually call an expert and ask them to help you with your visa, or meet with an expert and sit there and be okay, this is what I want, and I know what you're talking. I have the confidence to sit here. I'm not stressed, I'm feeling okay, I know why I'm doing this, and now all you gotta do is you do your job, do the visa, and I'll move abroad. And it works better this way. Uh and you see people who arrive, you know, feeling better with themselves. The transition is smoother, they have you know better expectations, they're not, you know, having those fantasies about moving abroad, they know better and they're more prepared.

Gizane Campos 33:00

Yeah, yeah, no, you're so right, and it's definitely the case of knowledge is power. Uh, there is a whole new vocabulary that you need to learn if you look into live abroad. Um, it goes from like the basics, like what's the difference between residency and citizenship? Um from all the visas that are available in different countries. If you want to stay for a while, you could perhaps go for a digital nomad visa. Uh, but you were digital nomad, but you also want to stay for longer. There are countries that offer the option of citizenship after um even with the digital nomad visa. Um, yeah, passive non-passive income visa, D7 in Portugal, uh, well, that many golden visa, lot. So, yeah, so it's good to have a platform where you can actually um get acquainted with all this information, and because even the moment you have more knowledge, you feel more confident as well, and the mindset changes. So, now talking about um empowerment, I'd like to speak to Bianca now. Um, she's an expert and life coach. Um, and Bianca, welcome to the podcast. I know you are you welcome. I know you specialize in coaching people through their major life decisions, uh, which includes moving abroad. So, what is the first step? Sorry, I moved here the microphone. What is the first step someone should take when they decide to pursue a dream of living overseas?

SPEAKER_00 34:39

Well, I mean, I think um Gal already touched on this a little bit in her answer as well. Um, the first step I always take with clients is really digging into the why, um, the goal behind the goal, so to say. Uh, there is, of course, the people that move for a great job opportunity. There's people that are seeking adventure and growth and maybe want to learn a new language. But I think it's always very important to look at the why. What is it that you want to change? Why are you pursuing this? Why is this important to you? Um, and then also take a holistic approach of what is important to you. For example, I've made this mistake as an early expat myself. I'm just like, great, great job opportunity, let's go. And then I didn't take a full view of my entire life, like what is important to me in my social circles, even romantically speaking, um, there's the finances, the home, the personal growth, your health, your fitness, hobbies that you currently have. So, what we usually do is we really do a deep dive into the why, and then also what is important to you in these different areas. What are your core values? So that way when you're making this decision to move abroad, or you're even selecting which country you would like to move to if you have that option, um, we can make sure that it's aligned with your core values. And the other reason this is so important, as we've already established, moving abroad has its challenges. Um, it's not necessarily just smooth sailing and an easy thing to do. So once you're clear on your values and your uh reason for why you're moving, it's great to come back to that uh when you're navigating some of those downs or some of those challenges. And then also uh being clear on the values in the different areas of your life is super important because, again, you can proactively plan for those things. You can um plan to find your favorite yoga studio if that's how you unwind at the end of the week. You can already tap into the Facebook groups to uh find friends or social circles in an area or hobby that you're interested in. So I think that is just the critical first step. And then of course, there's all the other aspects, right? Planning the visa, the logistics, looking at the practical things. But I think from a mental health, emotional health perspective, the why and the values is a critical first step.

Gizane Campos 37:13

That's great. Thank you. I realize I should have asked you that before, but uh better late than ever. Anyway, let's shake things um a bit up here. Do you tell me about your journey? Because you are an expat as well, and you're an expat coach. So I think maybe there are lessons from your journey that you can share with us.

SPEAKER_00 37:33

Yes, so um, let me think here. Just I guess for context, um, I was born in Germany, but moved to the US at a very young age. So I've had family in Germany, kept in touch with grandma and grandpa, but never practically lived there as an adult. And one of my first assignments was an opportunity to go to Germany and um train there to launch a major retailer in the US. So this was my corporate background. And I thought, great, okay, Germany, no big deal. Um, finally get the experience as an adult, let's go. And I just took the job opportunity. I thought it would be a smooth transition, but uh let me tell you, the culture shock of moving from Florida to Berlin was very, very real. And um, I also, when I landed there, I focused so much on the job and I latched on to my colleagues of okay, let's work. You're my friends, we work together. And um, that ended up backfiring, or maybe backfiring is a strong word, but basically I was everything in my life revolved around work, including my social activities. And of course, you don't want to divulge everything to your colleagues. If you're having a hard time emotionally, you might not be comfortable sharing that with your colleagues. And I neglected to incorporate these other things that I just mentioned, my own personal hobbies, my own social network outside of uh work. And I did end up kind of going through a low period where I was self-isolating, I was binge watching Netflix every night, I was lonely, and I really had to pull myself up and force myself to go out there. Um, another challenge that I had is I was very self-conscious about the little bit of German that I knew. A lot of my colleagues had several months language school training. I knew the basics, and they looked at me and they're like, well, that's good enough. Off you go. And I landed in a different part of Germany with a different dialect. Uh, I was very self-conscious about my language, and um, all of these things had an effect on me. And this was a very steep learning curve uh for my first assignment.

Gizane Campos 39:46

Wow, they must have been really hard, Bianca. Well done for overcoming those challenges. And and then and then the move to Lisbon, when did they happen?

SPEAKER_00 39:56

Yeah, so um I just hit my one-year anniversary not too long ago, and Lisbon was actually um interesting. So after the Netherlands, I had an opportunity to take a sabbatical where I traveled the world, you know, living the dream, um, four months South America, South Africa, seeing Europe, and eventually I needed to come back to reality. And um, for the first time in my life, I was able, or I decided not to just follow a job. I picked where I wanted to be and then sought out opportunities that would help me get there. So Lisbon in my travels has, or Lisbon, Portugal has always been one of my favorite countries. I love the weather, I love the nature, I'm very active outdoors. Uh it really did the coaching thing, right? I reflected on my values, I reflected on what's important to me socially outside of work. Um, I reflected on the type of lifestyle that I wanted. And um, yeah, I of course coming back from a sabbatical, I was looking for employment opportunities, but I focused my search on where I wanted to be. And that's what helped me move here. And during that time, I had also, of course, started my coaching practice. And um in the course of living here, I transitioned to the coaching full-time.

Gizane Campos 41:14

Well, I think you are um one of the many examples that we know of expats that say that moving abroad has really transformed them. Um, and I want to ask you now, based on all this experience that you had firsthand, how do you help clients navigate, um navigate through the emotional ups and downs of starting fresh in a new country?

SPEAKER_00 41:41

Um, there's a couple of different ways. And some are also, of course, specific uh to the client. But I would say the groundwork is something that I've already mentioned, right? Getting very clear on the why and values, because that's such a great tool to come back to when you are having those downs. Um, my transition even in Portugal in the beginning, I'm like, oh, is this right? I was navigating a lot of language barriers, challenges like that, but I kept coming back to my why that I'm here and how this is aligning with my values. And that's helped me navigate. Another thing that I do with my clients is in the very beginning, I dive into their strengths with them. I get examples that uh where they've demonstrated these strengths and uh demonstrated resilience. So sometimes um when the time is appropriate, we come back to how they've navigated challenges before. So that way they can be reminded and draw on those strengths. Um, I think it's also key to be prepared on what to expect. So there's that, you know, expat roller coaster of emotions between the honeymoon phase, the culture shock, uh, adaptation, but maybe just surface level adaptation where maybe deep down there's still some struggles. So I think being prepared for the common challenges and that this journey of ups and downs is absolutely normal is helpful. And then one of the last tools that we use is we really just address the fears head on, right? What is the worst possible outcome? And um getting prepared to navigate that as well. So when the moments um get a little bit low or um difficult things happen, um, just pulling from my own experience in the Netherlands, uh, I had moved and six months later, COVID hit hard, and the company I was a part of had a mass layoff. So, speaking of worst case scenario and navigating downs to lose your secure employment, six months of moving to a brand new country is probably as worst case as it gets. And um, I think it's really important that people know and see for themselves that they have the strength, the resilience, the resources, or capabilities to that. Navigate whatever comes their way. So I think touching on these points, especially during the downs, is key for the client to realize that they do have what it takes to navigate this.

Gizane Campos 44:12

I do want to finalize with one question that I will ask you and I'll also ask Maya and Gal. So first on you, Bianca, what would you say to someone who's afraid that their dream move might fail? Because the main challenge here is to embrace uncertainty, as you've explained, you gave to us, this shared with us this beautiful history of story of your life, the journey. There's a lot of uncertainty, a lot that comes and we cannot control, a lot of factors that we cannot control. But we need to overcome and take the leap. So how would you um what advice would you share with them?

SPEAKER_00 45:02

Is um I would say face the worst case head on and plan for it, be prepared. Um I actually created a worksheet and um it guides the client through not only identifying why they are doing this, what impact it would have, if maybe they don't try at the very least, how would they feel about their life looking back, knowing they didn't attempt it? But then also, like I said, looking at that worst case, right? What if I do lose my job in the first six months? Um, what if this or that does not work out? And then really thinking through it, okay, sure. Like let's pretend this happened. What are you going to do? What resources can you call upon? What can you plan for? Can you have a little bit of money set aside for a plane ticket home, for example? Um maybe even if concerns for like homesickness, things like that are a concern. Like, how do we plan for these things to make sure that if something does fail, you're going to be okay? I think that's just for mental and emotional well-being important to know that if this happens, I know I will still be okay.

Gizane Campos 46:14

Now I'm gonna ask Maya and Gal, what what is your advice to anyone scared of taking the leap?

SPEAKER_02 46:22

Well, there's so much, and uh, I definitely add uh to what Bianca said to not repeat myself. Um, one thing is to I wanna say if you if it's a choice, and we honestly believe that at least in the majority of cases, it is a choice, you always have a choice. The a shift of between have to move abroad and get to move abroad makes a big difference in the in the beginning of okay, so what is it that you expect to get? And also defining for yourself what it means to fail. If I go back to what Bianca said, um, because it's gonna be different for everyone. You can also imagine what would be to succeed, it will be different for everyone, and then define what it is this adventure that you're going to for yourself, because it is very different from every single person. Um, and the biggest part is to make the choice and understand that it is your choice, no one forces you. Uh, even if there are forces of nature, even if they are different worldwide economic situations. At the end of the day, it is a choice. And when you understand that it is yours, uh, it gives it takes a lot of uh energy, it is sometimes building up the pressure because you understand it's your life, but on the other side, it means you can always change, and maybe living for three months in another country and going back is not considered a failure, it's up to you to decide what it is. Um, so that would be my my advice, but you probably have another one.

SPEAKER_03 48:03

Those are great advices, yours. And Bianca, I couldn't agree more uh with what you said. Uh, but I want to add a little something, and for someone who is afraid and fear is what's his feeling right now, just know that great, fear is one of the greatest emotions you can have. It's totally normal, you're normal, you're human. It's okay to feel fear, and fear doesn't have to be negative, it's also a great opportunity for growth to show yourself how strong you actually are, to show yourself how capable you are and how courageous you are, because if you don't have this fear, then you probably won't push yourself a little bit more uh outside of your comfort zone and you won't um get to grow as a person. So I believe fear is a great emotion to have and to work with, and like Ga always has this uh quote that she's saying, if it's both exciting and freaks you out, then you should definitely do it.

SPEAKER_02 49:17

And and I can share a very personal uh story regarding this now that you mention it. Before my last move to France, um I was terrified of what's going on. It was middle of COVID, business, my previous business collapsed. Uh, I didn't really know what to do, and fear was a very, very strong emotion. Now, knowing that I'm I my background is from positive psychology, emotion is something I really love dealing with. And one of the tips that I used to do, and call me crazy, but I love doing those kind of things, is sitting down with my emotions, is accepting that they are here to teach me something or to tell me something. And I remember at the time, it was like five years ago, I would tell you, I just had coffee with fear, and she would laugh at me, but it was that I consider it that simple. I would literally sit down with myself, um, having coffee and asking myself, okay, fear, what is it that you're trying to tell me? Why are you coming? Because, as man said, you're human, it's fine that you're having those emotions, those are great things um to experience, but they're here to tell you something, and it's you just need to listen. It's you talking to yourself.

Gizane Campos 50:31

So uh it's a great thing to have. I feel like just came back of a therapy session. All those points were so relevant and so important. Um for it resonates with me because I'm an expat myself. So I went through all those things, and what uh Gal mentioned about knowing that the option that you are taking, the leap of moving abroad, it's also reversible when you think I can always come back if things do not work. It helps a lot, and that's what has helped me every time I decided to go to another country. Um, Laura, I know we mentioned that we were going to talk about the um the performance of uh USA in the quality of life rankings, but unfortunately we are running out of time. So I'd like to invite um our viewers to look into the um global passport index by Global Citizen Solutions. Um, the link will be available in the comment session. And um and yeah, so I think that's a wrap up. Thank you very much. It has been great. It was a very enlightening session. Uh big, big thank you to Dr. Laura Madrid, Satureto, Gal, M. Mayan, Frans Musitiv, and Bianca Tate, an expat coach. And uh thank you for sharing your insights and expertise. And I think we've all learned that life as an expat can be full of challenges, but it's also a great opportunity um for growth, for uh connection and discovery. So I hope you enjoyed this episode. Don't forget to subscribe and share with anyone who thinks will need it. And I'll see you next time. Thank you.