Gizane Campos: 0:03

Hello and welcome back to Be Global, the show we explore how people build freedom, opportunity, and security in the changing world. This episode is all about something most of us take for granted: the passport. It's supposed to be just a travel document, but today it's so much more than that. It shapes how we are, where we can live, what we can build, and how we can protect our future. For some, it's a lifeline. For others, it's an investment, a way to open new doors, hedge against uncertainty, and secure a plan B. Talking about Plan B, joining me today are Patricia Casaburi, CEO of Global Citizen Solutions, and Laura Madri Satreto, who leads our global intelligence unit. Hi Patricia, hi Laura.

Patricia Casaburi: 1:00

Hello, Giovanni. Hello, hi.

Gizane Campos: 1:02

Great, amazing to have you here. Together, we will unpack how the value of a passport and the idea of citizenship itself is changing before our eyes. So we talked about Plan B, and we're also here celebrating the fourth edition of the Global Citizen Solutions Global Passport Index. So, for those not familiar with our ranking, the passport index is a really helpful tool for understanding the strength and mobility of passports worldwide. Using fresh insights from our 2025 ranking, we will explore why Europe continues to dominate global mobility, why countries like Singapore and Uruguay are climbing fast, and why even small nations in the Caribbean are punching above their weight. Laura and Patricia, really glad to have you here. Before we move on and start talking about the more serious stuff, I'm gonna ask you an icebreaker. If you could choose a passport, any passport for any reason, curiosity, because you like the cover of the passport, because you like um the lifestyle of that country, which passport would it be?

Patricia Casaburi: 2:15

Well, on style alone, Singapore is brilliant because they have an orange cover. And also it's a it's a really good uh base to explore Asia, uh lifestyle, security. It's pretty interesting. Um yeah, I think I'll stick with that for now. That's a good one. Good answer.

Gizane Campos: 2:35

How about you, Laura?

Laura Madrid: 2:36

Well, I think uh having in mind that usually, not always, but usually to get a passport, you need to learn another language. I would say that I would like to learn, I don't know, maybe Russian, Chinese or something exotic for me. I am Brazilian. Uh, I I think I would choose by the language.

Gizane Campos: 2:55

Oh, nice, good. That's a very good one. I would choose the New Zealand passport. I think it's very pretty. I don't know if you've seen insights, there are very unique patterns in every page, and it's all about the nature of the country and so on. So I find it very pretty. But New Zealand itself is a very good country to live in as well. So, right, so we're all global citizens here, and um, but I want to nag you girls to talk about what that actually means today, okay? So, what are people really looking for, and how does the passport fit into that picture of freedom and security?

Patricia Casaburi: 3:36

I like to think that a global citizen is someone who has options. End of the day is about having options everywhere. Um, what we are seeing is a fundamental shift from singular national identity to uh strategic mobility planning. So it's someone that will design a life across borders. They'll choose where they want to live, study, invest, um seek out for you know opportunity and values, not just based on their birthplace. I think 10 years ago, like you were rightly um mentioned in your introduction, Gisani, um it was all about a little bit more about visa-free travel, um, but now what we are seeing is that individuals and families they have different needs. They are seeking quality of life, political stability has become really important, asset protection, personal freedoms, and obviously long-term security. So the passport kind of evolved from a travel document into a cornerstone, if you will, of financial and family planning. So having better access to banking systems, education, healthcare, you know, generally safe harbors is what people seek. We are living in an increasingly fragmented world, and having a plan B is not just paranoia, it's not about how many countries you can visit, but it's kind of a risk uh management tool.

Gizane Campos: 5:23

Absolutely. That's a very good point, and um, it's interesting how it has moved from being a simple, a simple book that allows you to enter a country um or live in a country to become a um a could be a symbol of security as well. So um I want to talk about the strength of a passport now. And um in the past, Laura, uh strong passport meant that you could travel to many countries with this strong book. So now it's not so much uh about that. So what new kinds of freedom are people searching for when they think about a passport or citizenship?

Laura Madrid: 6:11

Um I agree with Patricia. I think it goes um uh with exactly with what she said. Um in the past, people thought about passport as um as a way to achieve to reach uh different territories, especially uh in this uh in tourism um uh context. Um but now more and more, because we have more countries that um implemented uh legislation that allows people to relocate in their territories, people see it as a tool to again uh uh seek for a better quality of life, um protect their assets, give a better future or uh different options to their um kids, to their siblings. So uh it um uh regardless if you want to um just secure a second citizenship as a plan B, or if you want to relocate uh straight away after you get the that that book, as you said, or the residency rights, uh people were uh thinking about the possibility of reaching different territories for better quality of life, uh asset protection, tax optimization, and to give a better life to their families.

Gizane Campos: 7:36

Okay, that's really good. And I um understand all of that. Uh, but also part of this um new this plan to secure a lifestyle, there's also the financial plan, right? Um I'm gonna ask Patricia now. Um it's more this financial plan is a kind of insurance policy. This is what a passport uh could be as well. So, Patricia, how are investors and families using second citizenships as a way to protect or diversify their assets?

Patricia Casaburi: 8:11

Um, I think what is what we are seeing more and more is that families are using second citizenships like a jurisdictional hedge. Um, more than ever, uh, where you come from, you know, might reflect on where you can live, where you can bank. So people are looking to diversify where the assets are, companies, where the heirs are going to go to school or be domiciled. Um they want to access additional banking systems, payment rails, they choose the tax resident base that will fit their structure, but also maintain uh an exit option if politics or regulation which changes often or even security deteriorates in that particular uh country or jurisdiction. So it's a portfolio theory applied to sovereign um risk. Smart families today they are thinking holistically. So a Caribbean citizenship might offer visa-free travel fairly quick to over 140 countries and a favorite tax treatment, but then a European residents um might provide access or does provide access to world-class education, you know, good solid healthcare systems. And we look at countries like Malta, Portugal, they they offer mobility rights, nowadays attractive tax regimes, um or company structures. So it really depends, but uh but it is the smart thing to do looking at the the world today and seeing what makes sense for you now, what might make sense for the future of your family, and and like I said at the beginning, just use that hedge as much as possible to have this extra layer of.

Laura Madrid: 10:11

Yeah, if if I might add something, I I I understand it as a way of having you know possibilities. Um not only relying on one nationality, one citizenship, but having citizenship and residency rights in uh different jurisdictions. Uh that's why Patricia uh mentioned the uh citizenship or residency portfolio. Because uh if something um goes wrong where you're living or when where you have your business, you can always uh use this second option or plan B because you have other options in your portfolio.

Gizane Campos: 10:49

That's a very good insight. Thank you, Laura. Um and talking about flexibility, I wanted to now moving on a bit, okay, and um changing the theme. But um, about a decade ago, uh people moved abroad for jobs and adventures, so perhaps even more or less. So let's not get um involved in details of uh of gears. But um today we know that it's often about stability and options. Um I think I'm gonna ask Patricia, Patricia, what has changed in the way people think about relocation and mobility?

Patricia Casaburi: 11:29

I mean, immigration is one of the you know uh oldest, I guess, tools that you had to better your life. So it's not news. Um for ages, way past the you know, a decade ago, um, people were moving and they were seeking a better life, and it could be like you said, for career, adventure, or simply economic migration, whatever the reason was, um people, you know, they were doing, they were moving. But now the world is more connected, we have um technology in our side, so it's much easier to stay in touch, to to move, to connect, to open new paths. But I think that the main change today is that we we use the portfolio of residency or citizenship planning as a resilience tool. So companies should be building resilience tools, you know, to mitigate risk. And that's what families, individuals are doing. People are building their, you know, plan A, B, C, and to pivot regions cost uh politics. Obviously, we have two really relevant uh wars happening, you know, in our backyard, um, climate change, market shift. So if you build all that into your life analysis, not with a focus of doom and gloom, but like you said, is resilience, it's DECA plan. So relocation is now um a life design strategy, um, which is anchored in information that we have, so readily available, government that have been enabling this shift, but we also see um there's a generation dimension to it. You know, you have millennials, Gen Z, and they view citizenship completely different than what their parents did, um, how they saw it. They see it as modular, something you can add and optimize. It's not a uh the fixed identity you're born with. So, you know, it's common knowledge, they value experiences. We hear that a lot. But increasingly, what we find is that, you know, across generation, you value security. And that's kind of what the shift is.

Laura Madrid: 13:53

Yeah, exactly. And if I may add, just for you to have a piece of data about this, um, not only individuals they see citizenship now as a tool uh to achieve their aims, but even states, because in 2000 um in the 60s, um, only one-third of the countries would allow uh dual citizenship. In as of 2025, more than 65% of the of the nations allow for dual citizenship. It means that even uh nations are seeing citizenship as a more flexible um as a more flexible tool because because they allow uh because they know that they are you know multinational families, uh, that people have kids with multiple nationalities, yeah, and they understand immigration and mobility brings uh wealth and growth to their territories, and a country that can understand that immigration, um of course, immigration that will be uh regular and under this uh system of um good governance will bring uh growth and talent and wealth to the country. So countries see it differently.

Gizane Campos: 15:09

Yeah, Patricia mentioned the the um uh empowerment that the individual the individual will have to plan and safeguard their future, create the resilience and so on, but also how governments are noticing this trend. And um, so with the fantastic data that you gave me just now, it was a really short period for the policy to change and more countries allow uh dual citizenship. So, all of this shows how um planning your future with a a good a good passport, a good dual citizenship could be available to everyone. So now we are going to talk about the global passport index, which is a very good tool if you are now planning uh for your future. So, Laura, our specialist on um GPI, nine of the ten top passports in this year, global passport index, are European with the Nordics leading again. So Sweden's at the top. I'll I'll let you give me the list, okay? Um, so what makes, I want you to tell me about the Nordics and what makes um or Europe actually, this region so consistently strong, and what can others learn from it?

Laura Madrid: 16:33

Uh it's a great question, but first, if you allow me, I'm going to explain a little bit the methodology behind uh global passport index. Um, our index um is a very um comprehensive one. Um we not only analyze mobility when we rank the countries, so of course we have a dimension that will analyze mobility, the um meaning the countries that you can access with that passport, but we have two other dimensions for our global passport index. We analyze quality of life indicators and investment indicators. And this explains why Europe um makes nine of the top ten um positions in the in the global passport index. So still Europe shows um stable um indicators for politics, innovation ecosystems, and integration, integrated frameworks. Um also when I talk about mobility, uh we have this free movement zone in Europe, uh the Schengen area, where um residents and citizens can freely move uh on those countries. And um and this is a very important part of the global passport index. So European countries, and especially the Nordics, they rank really well in across all dimensions, but especially in the quality of life one.

Gizane Campos: 18:04

And uh, can you explain a bit about the quality of life one? What is it that the Nordics offer?

Laura Madrid: 18:09

So, what what Nordic countries have in common and why they they rank really well in the quality of life indicators is excellent uh governance quality, social trust, they they have access to nature, you know, green spaces, um excellent uh education systems, free education systems as well, and healthcare. All these indicators are integrated in our composite for the global passport index, and Nordic countries always, since the beginning in 2021, they rank really, really well.

Gizane Campos: 18:42

That's very good. Yeah.

Patricia Casaburi: 18:44

I would guess as well the Nordic countries they have very strong ECG policies, and that would definitely appeal to kind of a level of some generations, they're really fine-tuned into that. So I would guess that probably will play out as well in a decision making.

Gizane Campos: 19:01

And it all compensates the harsh winters when you get um uh the uh social welfare um to um yeah, to compensate it all. Right, so we talked about the countries that are doing well, which is great. Now, Laura, I want to focus on these countries that have sleeped, uh slept on our rankings. So we have the United States, Canada, and New Zealand. What I find really intriguing is that they are traditionally dream destinations, but they're losing ground on our ranking. And what does that say about the world right now?

Laura Madrid: 19:40

So, yes, you're right. Um first of all, I need to say that all these passports that you mentioned, United States, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand are still very, very strong passports. Um so of course, when we first uh published the Global Passport Index in 2021, the US was in the top position, was the first country, the like strongest passport. Now it's 14th, but it's still a very strong passport. Um the challenges those countries are facing uh in the last years are related to um economic indicators, so inflation, uh housing affordability, uh challenges that other countries also uh face. But in the case of uh the US specifically, um lately this country has imposed restrictions to passports from other nations. And um visa restrictions, they they function under the principle of reciprocity. So when you impose restrictions to nationals from country A, that country will impose restrictions. It's very likely that the country will impose restrictions to your nationals as well. And this has affects really uh strongly the enhanced mobility dimension of the passport index. So what I want to say is that now it's more difficult for people uh from uh US nationals to access visa-free territories. Either they cannot travel to those um uh countries or they they have to have a visa. Uh the rights are restricted because of this reciprocity principle that governs uh visa regulations.

Gizane Campos: 21:29

I do understand now why they are going down the rankings, still uh ranking highly, just not among the top 10. So now, as we're talking about the top 10, I want to talk about the only non-European passport uh ranking there, which is Singapore. So, Laura, what is Singapore doing right? It's the only country ranking amongst the top 10.

Laura Madrid: 21:55

Yeah, you're right. Let's say uh Singapore is doing their homework. Uh they are very predictable jurisdiction. Uh they open their borders for talent, wealth, and it um enhances uh indicators on quality of life uh and mobility because this country is a hub and uh geographically it's positioned in a in a in a region that has access to east and west, and it's a very open um society for again attracting talent and wealth. That's why uh they have um agreements, uh um mobility agreements with many uh regional blocks. And uh they are they are also a very um positive jurisdiction for investment. Um again, there is predicate uh predictability when you want to start your business there. They have a legislation that attracts that is attracting family offices, and with family offices you attract wealth, and that's why Singapore has top positions in in both dimensions, enhanced mobility and investment uh dimension of the passport index.

Gizane Campos: 23:05

Okay, good. And um, and Singapore always stands out in our ranking of uh investment index, as you said, yeah?

Laura Madrid: 23:14

Exactly. It's reliable, it's fast, uh, it's predictable for investors that want to invest in that market, and geographically it's positive because you uh you are in the middle of you know major uh markets.

Gizane Campos: 23:26

Great. Okay, so now uh just to a quick reminder to all our listeners that they're able to access a global passport index uh on our website, and um, and if they click each country of the ranking, they will be able to see a full load down on um the various um pillars that brought this passport to uh its position in the ranking right now. So now we talked about Singapore and what Singapore was doing right, and I think there's also a good story to share here about Caribbean islands. So we've got nations like Sankitzanivis, Antiguan Babuda, and the Bahamas that have actually climbed the rankings this year. Um, Laura, why are these small countries gaining ground?

Laura Madrid: 24:18

The islands, they are, we can say that since 2021 they are recovering from uh from the pandemic when they lost revenue because of uh tourism loss, so they have a tourism rebound. Also, uh, if you focus on CBI uh countries, the countries that have citizenship by investment programs, they received uh investment from from these programs and it's it's it affects positively their GDP. So I can I can give you some examples of countries that have climbed positions like Antigua and Barbuda has climbed 14 positions since we started to track their passport strength. St. Kitts and Nevis, 10 positions, St. Lucia, eight positions. So all CBI countries have improved since we started to measure uh their passport strength, and it's related to tourism, of course, but also to the revenue coming from CBI programs and regional cooperation. They have regional cooperation agreements and it enhances the their mobility.

Gizane Campos: 25:24

Absolutely, I can see that. Well done, South Caribbean. Now let's move on. I am going to talk about, I want one of you, perhaps Patricia, to talk about the um the future of citizenship. And um the citizenship of the future is adaptive, right? And what does this mean to you, Patricia? And how do you see the idea of citizenship evolving in the next decade?

Patricia Casaburi: 25:55

Um, I think adaptive citizenship, I like that. Um it's kind of moving away from your national identity to a more dynamic, uh responsible framework in terms of rights or and ideal places to live. So citizenship seems to be evolving from um single political bonds to a modular uh toolkit. So I think we've said that before, uh layering citizenship, residences, um, combination of digital works, uh services, um, to work across different scenarios. We see big uh some countries being super strategic about that. Like you see that in UAE, and we talked Singapore now, um Europe with a more like a steady framework, but quite a lot going on. I see a few trends emerging and and or converging, if you will. So we have countries, more countries a little bit on what Laura was saying, offering flexible residence to citizenship pathways. They don't necessarily require physical residence, but you kind of build that um into your plan A, B, or C or whatever. They often require meaningful contributions into the country, like we're talking about the Caribbean Islands, um, but they bring a wealth of uh benefits uh to the countries and obviously for to the investors. We also another thing that I I think it makes sense and it seems to be kind of coming up more and more, um, it's we'll see more rights decoupling. So we see economic rights separated by political rights or residency rights from citizenship. So you have a lot of examples on that. You you might have someone that resides in one place for economic reasons, but they're looking to build this kind of a political stability into their future. So there's a lot of um examples to kind of stem from that. And then I think something we didn't talk enough, but I I reckon is super important is technology, um which you know enables uh enables us to adapt, to explore, um, expand. So, and there's so much going on in that space. So you have blockchain, which a lot of countries will be building into their uh granting of residency and citizenship. So this kind of verified credentials is a little bit safer, it's fast. Portable social security contributions. I love to write a paper on that actually, something that we can explore. You know, international tax treaties that seem to be flourishing, um, and all of those things will enable more and more like kind of this space of um mobile citizens.

Laura Madrid: 29:02

Yes, I totally agree. Just to add to what Patricia was saying, uh, in the 80s and 90s, we we uh got into this uh globalized world. And if you think that you know goods and services are mobile, why not people? People with their their rights secured, regularized immigration, of course, but why not having this um mobile uh community? And I think one thing Patricia touched upon that is very, very relevant to uh person people's mobility is technology. We've seen this after the pandemic, how um companies they started to allow like remote work. We we see that now some companies are having this hybrid uh uh work conditions, but more and more people can work from different uh geographical spaces. So I think globalization and technology are enablers for people to be more mobile.

Gizane Campos: 29:59

Sure. Sure. Yeah, I see I see that. I see that trend and how it's basically might sound cheesy, but the world is in your hands. So you just need to do your research properly because anything is possible, anything you can dream of. But I want you to talk to someone who is thinking, listening to us, and thinking about a plan B. But not necessarily to move right away, but just to have options. What does building a future-proof life look like today?

Patricia Casaburi: 30:35

Think layers. So future-proofing doesn't necessarily mean that you, like you said, move immediately. But just, you know, still kind of on topic. It's build or create this resilient optionality into your plan life plans. So you never feel that you're forced into a corner. I think practically start with rights, not relocation. So, you know, invest in a golden visa, which is basically through investment in a different country, you build residency rights, but very light touch because you don't actually need to move there. So that's one thing that you can do practically. Think in systems, not single solutions. So your plan B might include a second passport for mobility, if it's something that kind of holds you back. So straight away, maybe a Caribbean citizenship. Property investment that might kind of grant you rights for residency. More and more, and we are seeing the changes, going back to that, but international banking access, how does that look like? Having this kind of free flow of children's education pathways, you might not be in a position to move, but could your kids go somewhere and you know explore university somewhere in the future? I don't know. But all these pieces they come together eventually. And then tax is something, again, we didn't talk much today, but is obviously super important. I don't think you should just optimize for tax rates today, because it's super um long-winded. So optimize for flexibility. Because a lot, you know, tax law changes in in countries all the time. But how having uh legal residence in in one country can affect tax jurisdictions in other locations, so you can adapt to this kind of life changes. What kind of structures do you need to put in place to kind of shelter or protect your assets and also in terms of succession planning? Look at your family's timeline. If you have young children, young adult children, or if you're looking to retire, um, just kind of build that into your plan and see what makes sense. And always small steps, you know, commit to doing this plan, do the research, see what's out there, uh what's available, and yeah, and just start. So families that sleep well at night and they they haven't necessarily just moved, but they know that they could if they needed to. I think that's kind of around that's what freedom looks like in 2025.

Laura Madrid: 33:31

Yeah, I totally agree. But if I could just sum up in one word, I would say diversification. Uh, you know, when wealth managers they say to their clients, diversify your assets. Um, why not diversify your jurisdictions to avoid or um both, right? Exactly, above. But I think this is a new this is a new vocabulary that we have now, diversification of jurisdictions. Because of course, wealth managers would always um uh say to their clients to diversify assets uh among different investment options. We would say diversify your jurisdiction options, your passport or citizenship and residency portfolio. Because when you have instability on one uh corner of the world, you can always use uh this those tools to access other territories and protect your family, your assets, and your your life, your lifestyle.

Gizane Campos: 34:34

Okay, so it's not one size fits all, but all different journeys of life will have a plan B that will fit them. Okay, wow. Thank you very much, Laura and Patricia. This conversation has been a fantastic learning opportunity. What obviously I learned here was that Passport is not just a legal book, it is about planning, it's about safeguarding your future and unlocking new opportunities. So thank you so much for joining us on Be Global.

Patricia Casaburi: 35:06

Thanks for having us.

Gizane Campos: 35:07

Right and to our listeners, thank you for tuning in. Don't forget to subscribe to Be Global, wherever you get your podcasts, of course, and visit global citizensolutions.com for insights into global mobility, citizenship, and residence programs worldwide. Until next time, stay curious, stay global.